Saturday, August 5, 2017

You've Committed One of the Classic Blunders...

The most famous is "Never Get Involved in a Land War in Asia".

Russell Newquist has a short review up of Marvel's Doctor Strange. It's good, so go check it out. I'll wait.

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Back? Okay, we can dive in. Some spoilers ahead.



If you took a look at the comments, you'll know I generally agree with Russell on the film: it's a solid entry, it's humorous, and the finale was clever.

But Strange's strategy wouldn't work.

As Russell points out, it would work on me if one of my kids stuck me in a time loop until I agreed to buy them a pony. The flaw is, I am not an immortal, malevolent alien intelligence that lives outside time and is bent on conquering the universe. (According to the Internet, that's Vox Day.)

Dormammu is portrayed in the film as something that can be negotiated with in good faith. That just ain't happening. What reason would he have to hold up his end of the bargain once Strange sets him free of the time loop? See the third Matrix movie for an egregious example of this.

Worse, the time loop that traps Dormammu also traps Strange. Strange admits as much. And while he is the Sorcerer Supreme with a mammoth degree of willpower and certainty in himself, he's still human. And all humans can be broken. To paraphrase from Babylon 5, it's a simple matter of time, effort, and patience.

What could an immortal, evil, intelligent demi-god get away with in the circumstances set up in the film?

He has unlimited time, effort, and patience. He could turn Strange, subvert him into a weapon and direct him back at the very planet he tried to save. And there's really no way Strange could stop this. At some point, he'd end the loop simply to escape the pain (and deliver the Time Stone to Dormammu) or he'd turn on the planet that was so "weak" he had to be put into this position.

Let me be clear: I am not saying this would be right. I'm not saying it would fit the tone of the film. I'm saying it would happen.

So how to fix this plot hole and save the film? I have two possible solutions.

First, Strange's actions in creating a loop of time to trap Dormammu could create an opening for the rest of the sorcerer's of Earth to defeat Kaecilius. Because Strange is in another dimension (one in which time obviously works differently), the reach of the loop could quite easily be assumed to end at the line between dimensions. Strange can keep track of the minutes with his brilliant intellect, then end the loop and escape at the appointed hour.

This would give us a glimpse of Wong and Mordo fighting, cementing their abilities in the minds of the viewers for the sequel, as well as setting Dormammu as ruthless and obsessed with Strange.

This option requires a lot of rewriting, though.

The second possibility is easier: just give us a line from Kaecilius or the Ancient One about how Dormammu can't lie or would never think to. It could be a throw-away bit of dialogue while Strange is learning about the threat that is the Dark Dimension, but it allows us to now believe that Dormammu can be negotiated with. Everything else in the film could stand as written.

Without that rule or evidence of it, I return to my original premise.

Having now committed another well known classic blunder (Never start an argument with a philosopher on the Internet), I await my thrashing in the comments.

Next time, I'll just challenge Larry Correia to a gunfight. It'd be over quicker.


7 comments:

  1. So reading this interchange actually helped me fix my major problem with it, which was "How is this not a permanent solution to all Dormammu problems forever?" Basic rules of cinema won't let that stand.

    The answer is that it worked this time specifically because Dormammu lives in a dimension without time. Presumably, he's used to everything happening all at once, or in whatever random order he feels like making it happen. Strange limits him to operating under this alien concept of events happening sequential order (which then doesn't even have the decency to stay in sequence! Stupid Sorcerers Supreme!)

    So while Dormammu COULD have waited it out, once he got the hang of it, he was caught off guard and flustered by the unpleasant experience, and when his usual "crush the insect" strategy failed him he bargained to make the damn itch go away so he could think straight.

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    1. It really depends on how emotionally driven you think Dormammu is. Your explanation fits perfectly if he's impulsive. All villains have to have flaws or their the evil equivalent to a Mary Sue. It looks like the MCU guys agree with your assessment. I just don't think I see that from the history in the comics.

      Thanks for the comment, by the way.

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    2. Witness beat me to my own response. The brilliance of the solution lies exactly in the subtlety - and in the fact that the movie doesn't take the time to explain it.

      The key is something that you already noted in the post above: Dormammu lives outside of time. Strange brings it to him. It's a new experience.

      The point isn't whether he's emotionally driven or not. The point is that Strange knows how to deal with this. Dormammu, for all his power, doesn't.

      And ON TOP OF THAT it's not just time, it's a loop - a very, very annoying loop.

      As for it not being a permanent solution, that's writing 101: always leave room for sequels!

      Sorry, man, but I can't buy the objections.

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  2. it would work on me if one of my kids stuck me in a time loop until I agreed to buy them a pony.

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    And while he is the Sorcerer Supreme with a mammoth degree of willpower and certainty in himself, he's still human. And all humans can be broken.

    There's a reason I chose the example I did. At a superficial glance, you're right - my willpower is far stronger than a child's, and I presume yours is as well. But this isn't a typical case.

    Try the same scenario but with a hungry child - nature's way of explaining to an irrational being that survival is on the line (which Strange, in the film, knows rationally).

    Strange has far more to lose by giving up than Dormammu does. In a similar time loop, you could never shut up the hungry child (were it sufficiently hungry), no matter how many times you smite it - even if it remembers every single time. The hunger drive, the survival drive, is too great.

    Strange has survival on the line. Dormammu has a choice between "smite today or smite tomorrow." It's easy to see where this eventually breaks.

    Note: we see Strange demanding that Dormammu leave and "never come back." The movie does not show us what Dormammu finally agrees to.

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  3. In good hands, that last distinction is the makings of an entire sequel.

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    1. It still doesn't explain why he wouldn't attempt to kill Strange immediately as soon as the loop is broken. Why is Dormammu going to keep his word? If they answer that question well in a sequel, then yes, it fills in a plot hole and this movie jumps a couple notches up the rankings. But that McGuffin better be impressive.

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    2. How does Dormammu know when the loop is broken? It doesn't seem to require Strange to be alive to continue, and in fact seems to trigger on his death. So as far as I know, Dormammu *can't* kill Strange without triggering another loop.

      He cooperates exactly enough to get Strange to leave the Dark Dimension (and stay out).

      There's no reason to believe he intends to keep any other part of his "bargain" any longer than it suits him.

      (Also note, "as soon as", "until", "any longer" etc are all things that, based on the setup, should be alien to Dormammu, and take some getting used to for him).

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